Dear Tom and Ray:
We're buying a car for my 17-year-old son. I've found two cars locally that appeal to us -- a classic 1968 VW with a few thousand miles on a rebuilt engine, and a 1992 Honda Accord with power everything, a four-cylinder engine and 162,000 miles. From my experience, having owned a Bug in my glory days, the delight of working on the vehicle and maintaining it myself might outweigh the practicality of a new car that could have subsequent issues -- you know used cars! The price of each is comparable ... what do you guys think?
--Mindy
Tom: I think you may be having a midlife crisis, Mindy. When people start musing wistfully about VW Bugs, that's a pretty clear danger sign.
Ray: Like most of us do, you're conflating your glory days with the car that you drove in your glory days. During that period of your life, you were single and carefree, you had long, flowing, not-gray hair, you wore a size 6, and you drove to Woodstock with four boyfriends competing for your attention and Hubert H. Humphrey bumper stickers on your car. That was a good, old time.
Tom: But it wasn't the car that was good. Even in its day, it was a cheap, dangerous car. And now it's infinitely more so -- due to the greater number of cars on the road and the percentage of them that are now enormous.
Ray: And since young drivers -- and especially young male drivers -- tend to crash their cars at higher rates than other people, you don't want your teenage son in a VW Bug when that happens.
Tom: Back in the '60s, we knew people who died in VW Bugs. And some of them had to be buried in them, because the car was too compacted to get them out!
Ray: So, get him the Accord. While there are things he won't be able to do to the Accord, he can learn to do the basic maintenance. And when things beyond his capability break, he'll learn the hard lesson that every one of us has had to learn as a young driver: How to get a job, and then fork over your hard-earned money to a lousy mechanic.
(Car Talk is a nationally syndicated column by automotive experts (and brothers) Tom and Ray Magliozzi. Write to them at the Car Talk Web site.)
13 Comments
By Ted Coop on August 9, 2009 12:48 PM
... and buy him the Chilton's manual for the '92 Accord, if you can find it.
By Jeff on August 9, 2009 2:59 PM
I say get the bug. He can learn to work on it, parts are LOTS cheaper since there were so many made. Bug "Community" tends to be a lot better, plus girls think the bugs are cute.
Also with today's fast and furious crowd, I think he will be going a lot faster in the Honda than the bug (if it is stock the bug is not going to be a high speed machine anyway)
By Atticus on August 9, 2009 3:52 PM
Tom and Ray are so full of B.S. on this one. A Honda is not going to save your life any better than a VW in an accident, for one. Two: VW owners enjoy a robust aftermarket industry. Can you order a completely rebuilt Honda engine for $1200 and install it yourself in an afternoon? Not. Three: VWs are bulletproof. I drove a '65 VW bus from L.A . to Sacramento (400 miles) on three cylinders. Four: A 1200 cc VW engine with a single barrel carb gets 40 MPG. Five: They go anywhere in the snow. Six: A vintage VW will sell for much more than a similarly aged Honda Accord.
By Jon on August 9, 2009 10:08 PM
Atticus is an indiot.
VW as safe as an accord? The VW bug has no frame. You're basically driving around in a pair of seats surrounded by only a sheet metal skin. The 92 Accord got 4 out of 5 stars in a NHTSA crash test.
Your repair costs and practability of the Accord vs Bug is bogus as well. Change the oil and do preventative maintenance and the Accord WON'T break down and WON'T need to be have it's engine replaced. The fact that you made it 400 miles on 3 cylinders is negligable as most cars will run with 3/4 of their cylenders in operation. The fact that you lost a cylindar in the first place is the real issue.
Anycar with proper tires will go anywhere in the snow. Do I need to remind you that FWD is better than RWD in snow?
As for the car keeping it's value, that doesn't apply here. The Beetle stopped production in 1979 (not counting the Mexican bugs) whereas the Accord wasn't introduced until 1976. There are very, very few Accords from 1976-1979 are that are still around.
A vehicle built by Hitler and embraced by Hippies is a vehicle deserving of the junkyard.
Guys don't want to drive "cute" cars anyway.
By paw on August 10, 2009 8:09 AM
The question that's been missed is whether the son enjoys fixing cars. If he doesn't then why not keep looking and find one he likes?
By Brendan on August 10, 2009 3:57 PM
Beetles are cute and easy to work on. I owned one for several years, and learned quite a bit about how to work on cars. Was a great experience. But they are death traps. Sheet metal, no frame. Bad drum brakes. An steering wheel that is really optimized for impaling. And they are so light that they hydroplane really easily. And crosswinds are truly terrifying. I would never put a teenager in one. Get car with ABS and air bags. The kid may not be able to work on all the systems, but he'll have a much better chance of living if he's in an accident.
Sadly, I know a family who lost a teenager when she wrecked her bug. Twenty years later, they are still traumatized. And they all drive Volvos. There so so many inexpensive cars that are MUCH safer.
By Mike on August 10, 2009 11:58 PM
Honda is one of the few car companies that publishes their OEM service manuals. With the Honda manual, you can learn to do almost any maintenance job you have the tools and patience to try.
A Honda is a great car to learn to do your own maintenance on -- and the lessons you learn will be appropriate to modern cars.
By Maggie on August 11, 2009 5:55 PM
Do you guys get a commission from Honda? Bugs are Great Cars!! You can fix them yourself and they don't require a lot of money to get around in because the gas mileage is great. Also, since they have not gut, no glory, they aren't going to involve your kid in a high speed crash since they can't do the high speeds. I've got a Honda Prelude sitting in my driveway that I haven't driven in 6 months and I've been looking for an old beater VW Bug to get fixed up by my friend and then do a wrap on it. Much cheaper than the $1000. price tag every time the Honda hiccups.
By My name. on August 12, 2009 12:21 AM
I think the thing that commenters seem to be forgetting is that while a classic Beetle can be a great car- especially for someone passionate enough to properly care for it- it isn't the best choice for this or any other young/first-time driver. Tom and Ray are right for reccommending the Accord in this case.
By Joe on August 13, 2009 11:19 PM
Sorry, this is a stupid question. There's a reason they don't make the old Bug anymore--it's not safe, it's slow, and for the amount of power its engine makes, it gets horrible gas mileage and pollutes enough to make up for ten new low-emission cars. They're easy to fix and they're fun, but between absolutely horrendous crash safety and the propensity of the engine to catch fire for fun, Bugs should be collector's items, not daily transportation. In areas with road salt, they also rust faster than anything made in the last 30 years.
Old Accords aren't that hard to work on, and if you get parts from a salvage yard the parts are cheap too.
If you have to have an old European car, try an 80s or 90s Volvo 740/940 (cheaper than a 240 now!). They're safe, reliable, and parts are cheap and easy to find if you know where to look. I had a '94 940 ($2500 used!) for quite a while and it was great.
I *hate* Hondas with a passion--between their Vulcan death grip on the supply chain, lame control design, and their engineers' total disregard for mechanics' job, the one I had in high school will be the last... but if it comes down to Accord or Bug, the Accord is a no-brainer.
By Lynne on October 21, 2009 8:05 AM
For 25 years I had the best VW Truck,I sold it 2 yrs ago & the guy tried to switch it from diesle to gas.He ruined it then sold it for scrap.It had over 250,000 miles on it & it still ran good.I have a town & country now liked the voyager better.Oh,well.........
By Mat on November 1, 2009 12:04 AM
Joe has a good idea. An older Volvo would be a good find. Honda builds a decent car, but an old accord may need a timing belt ($600.00 or more) Ball joints ($700.00 or more) Shocks (no need to put another redundant figure here you get the idea). Hondas are expensive to work on because of their engineering and parts availability. Labor cost is always high and parts are higher. An old Volvo can have a timing belt replaced for under $300.00, and you don't even have to stress over it because if it breaks it won't bend the valves anyway. Ball joints are only about $25.00 a side for the parts (only 2 of them) and bolt on. Ball joints on a Honda ( 4 of them due to the double wishbone suspension) have to be pressed in to the control arms, that means more labor. When my Volvo sprang a coolant leak the part (expansion tank) only cost $17.00 online, and it only requires a wrench and flat head screwdriver to install. A Volvo is the kinf=d of car you really can drive indefinitely if you just take decent care of it.
The VW is another story. They were a ground breaking design.....50 years ago. they can be quite a nostalgic and interesting car to own but are no longer suitable as a daily driver. The newest Bug you can get has been old enough to buy its own beer for almost a decade. Any car that old is going to be temper mental. A teenager has a hard time just driving from a to b without hitting something, they do not need to be distracted with such concerns as " will my car make that funny noise again"? or "is this thing going to get me to school for a change"? At least that's my opinion. :)
By McWrench on January 13, 2010 11:40 PM
I agree that for a beginning driver (especially a teen) the miserable honda would be the best choice here. However, I beg to differ with their assertion that cars now are bigger than when the bugs were made? Pure BS. Any full size car from that era was larger, heavier, and more powerful than the junk of today. Even if you include flip prone SUVs and Pick-ups.